Week 4, Question 1

7/7/2014

Read Ch 12 – 14 (105-127) and answer the following questions/statements:

· Describe at least two disagreements between Northern and Southern states at the convention. What parts of the Constitution are the result of compromises that settled disagreements between the Northern and Southern states? Do you think the Framers should have made these compromises? Why or why not?

31 Comments

Lucy

7/14/2014 08:06:23 am

The Northern and Southern states both disagreed on tariffs and slavery. The North wanted tariffs to persuade more Americans to buy manufactured things from them and they did not want slavery. The South did not want tariffs because they bought their manufactured goods from Great Brittan and they wanted slavery to have a higher profit margin on their farms.

In section 8 in Article 1: Congress gets the ability to collect and lay taxes, duties, imposts, and excises.
This means that they can make tariffs

In section 9 in Article 1: Slaves can be imported and exported until 1808.

In section 2 in Article IV: The fugitive slave act stated that slaves that made it to the North would be returned to their "owner".

In section 2, Clause 3, in Article 1: The three-fifths clause stated that three-fifths of slaves would count towards the number of representatives that state got.
To get the southern vote they allowed slavery to continue.

I think that the framers did what they had to do to get their vote and I agree with them. Having a country with slavery, or no country with slavery. I would choose to have a country. Although I think they should have tried harder to convince the south to abolish slavery then and there.

Claire

7/14/2014 08:23:16 am

One disagreement of the Northern and Southern states at the convention was about tariffs. A tariff is a tax on imported goods. The Northern states believed that they needed tariffs to make sure imported goods didn't become more popular than their goods. The Southern states believed that tariffs unfairly favored the North and they were afraid that Britain would put tariffs on goods produced in the South making them harder to sell in Europe. Another disagreement between the Northern and Southern states was about slavery. Most of the Northern stated had put an end to slavery officially by the time of the convention but many Southern states were dependent on slaves. Most of the Framers from the Northern states were against slavery and a few of the Southern Framers were too. The Southerners believed that each stated had the right to decide about slavery for themselves.

Eventually the Framers compromised about both tariffs and slavery. Section 8 Article 1 states that congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises. This gave Congress the power to place tariffs. During the convention the Framers also decided that they wouldn't end the slave trade before 1808. Slavery was prohibited in some of the states, but to get the Southerners to vote on the Constitution they let slavery continue for a while.

I understand why the Framers made the compromises they did and agreed to allow slavery for a while but I still don't agree with slavery. The Northern Framers decided to allow slavery because they needed the votes of the Southern states.

Claire

7/14/2014 08:26:22 am

I agree with Lucy. The Framers did what they needed to do to get the votes of the Southern states. Having a Constitution that allowed slavery for a while is better than having no Constitution at all. I do believe that they could have tried harder to get rid of slavery all together but they did what they had to.

Lucy

7/14/2014 09:24:49 am

WOW Claire, I came back to the computer after 5 minutes and you had responded! That was fast.
I agree with Claire that one of the biggest things that the North and South disagreed on was tariffs. The North needed tariffs to ensure they had customers waltzing into their stores every now and then. While the South would have to pay extra every time they bought something from Brittan. Plus they were scared that Brittan would place tariffs on their products and less people would buy from them and insted buy from local Brittan shops.

Devyn

7/15/2014 12:22:22 am

Two things the North and South disagreed on was tariffs and slavery. A tariff is a tax placed on imported goods. The North felt tariffs were necessary so they could keep control on what was popular and what was not. The North was also not a fan of slavery whatsoever. The South did not want tariffs; they bought imported goods from Britain. If Britain decided to place tariffs on their imported goods as well, they'd never be able to afford anything. The South approved of slavery. It was an easy way to get work done, and they made more of a profit. They really depended on slaves to get the work done.

One of the compromises made was in Section 8 Article 1. It gave Congress the power to collect taxes, which is what the North wanted. The other compromise, about slavery, was in Section 9 Article 1. It allowed slave trade to continue until 1808. This way, the South would be happy it didn't end right away, and the North would be happy it wouldn't go on forever.

I do think the Framers should have placed these compromises. You can't make just one side happy, or there will be war between the two. Compromise is the only way to be sure everyone gets something they want. It's the only fair way.

Devyn

7/15/2014 12:24:35 am

I partially disagree with Lucy. I do not think the Framers should have tried to abolish slavery as soon as possible, because then the South would have never given them their vote. Slavery was one of their main concerns going into the convention. Leaving without it would've been a big deal. But, then again compromise was key.

Devyn

7/15/2014 12:26:51 am

I agree with Claire. Allowing slavery to continue for a minute was the right thing to do. If they abolished it, they wouldn't have gotten the South's vote. Then would in turn have to work harder and harder to make up for it. Having slavery, even only for a period of time, made the South happy, and that's all they needed.

Clara

7/15/2014 02:32:20 am

The Northern and southern states disagreed on slavery and tariffs. The Northern states thought that tariffs would help their businesses prosper because tariffs would encourage people to buy goods made in America. The Southern states disagreed with tariffs because they felt if they put tariffs on Great Britain’s goods, then Great Britain would put tariffs on the South’s raw goods. This would mean it would be more difficult to sell their goods to Europe. Many people strongly disagreed with slavery, even some people in the Southern states. But Southern states economies were dependent on slavery. In the North, slavery had already been officially abolished.

As a result of these disagreements, the delegates had to compromise and this resulted Section 8 and 9 of the Constitution. Section 8 states that Congress could collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises. It also allowed for the federal government to regulate commerce with other nation and the Indian tribes. Section 9 states that the Congress cannot outlaw slavery until after 1808.

I think these compromises were important to get the states working together so that they could become a country. Without these compromises three states threatened to not join the United States: North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.

Lucy

7/15/2014 11:54:55 pm

I agree with Devyn that the Southern states wouldn't have been able to get all the work done with out slaves.

Lucy (continued)

7/15/2014 11:57:40 pm

I pressed the submit thing accidentally.
This is why the slaves were so important to the south and why the Southern states were so set on keeping slavery.

Claire

7/20/2014 01:38:39 am

I agree with Devyn. If the Framers hadn't placed the compromises they did and had just made one side happy, there would have been war. The Framers did what they had to to maintain peace and try to make each side happy. I think the Framers did a very good job at achieving this.

Sarah

7/22/2014 11:43:17 am

The Northern and Southern states at the convention did not agree on everything. One conflict was the need of tariffs. The Northern states thought that tariffs were necessary fir them to prosper for their businesses. The Southern States thought the tariffs would increase cost of manufactured goods and the tariffs were in favor for the Northern States. The other conflict between the Northern and Southern states was about slavery. The Northern States were opposed to slavery and did not depend on slaves. The Southern states had farmers who were dependent on the slaves to help grow their crops, they thought that each state should decide whether or not they actually want to have slavery or not. In the end, the framers were able to make a compromise for their Constitution. They gave Congress the power to place tariffs on imports and control interstate and foreign trade. The compromise also include slavery is for satisfying demands of some of the Southern states. This was the only way to get both sides happy and to bring the states closer together to form a nation. I think the Framers should have made those compromises at the time. It was to help bring our nation closer together and it is a good way to help settle agreements.

Sarah

7/22/2014 11:45:04 am

I agree with Clara, at the time, the Framers needed all thirteen states to join.

Clara

7/23/2014 05:26:52 am

I agree with Sarah. The compromise made by the Framers was necessary because without it not all of the states would have agreed on the Constitution.

Clara

7/23/2014 05:33:40 am

I agree with Lucy. I believe the tariffs were intended to benefit the Northern states by making products from foreign countries more expensive than products of national origin.

Gabriella

7/23/2014 06:19:10 am

Two things the Northern and Southern states disagreed on were slavery and tariffs. The Southern states' economy relied heavily on slave labour in agricultural fields on plantations. These states did not want slavery to be outlawed, and they refused to be part of a nation that prohibited it. The Northern states did not rely on slavery at all, and most had banned it, they thought this should be the same for all states. Many people hated the idea of slavery, Gouverneur Morris said it was "the curse of heaven on the states." Another conflict was the idea of tariffs. The North favored them because they made it more likely that people would buy American goods rather than foreign ones. The South opposed because tariffs would increase the cost of the manufactured goods they got from Europe. They were also afraid that Great Britain would put tariffs on their agricultural goods. The compromise reached made generally favored the North in tariffs, but the South in slavery, for fear of them not accepting the constitution. Section 8 of the constitution states that congress has the power to make tariffs on imports. The framers agreed that the government would not end slave trade before 1808. Slavery, however, was kept in practice in some southern states. I agree with the decision made on tariffs in order to promote the sale of American goods. However, I do not agree with the decision made on slavery. The Framers should have taken a more direct approach to ending slavery rather than submitting to the South's demands.

Jordan

7/30/2014 12:39:12 am

The Northern and Southern sates both disagreed about tariffs and slavery. The Northern states belived that they needed tariffs for their businesses to succeed. Tariffs on products in England would cost more than the products in America. So Americans would be more likely to buyproducts in America than from England.The Southern states belived that the tariffs woulkd raise the prices for products from Europe. They believed that tariffs favored the North. They also were afraid that Britain would place tariffs on products grown in the Southern states. Now the problem with tariffs was not as bad as with slavery. Slavery in the states began during the first settlements. But most of the North had stopped doing it. As for the south, they still wanted to continue slavery because they were financially dependant on slaves.

In section 8 article 1 it says that congress has the ability to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, and to pay debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the united states. So basically they can make tariffs.

In section 9 article 1 it says that the migration or importation of such persons as of any states now existing shall not be prohibited by congress until 1808.

I think it was good that framers should have made these compromises because it sorted things out and it was fair for both the Northern states and the Southern states.

Jordan

7/30/2014 12:47:44 am

I agree with Claire. The framers should have not allowed slavery slavery just to get more votes from the south.

Jordan

7/30/2014 12:52:10 am

I agree with Devyn. The framers shouldnt have just made one side happy.

Elijah S.

8/3/2014 08:13:45 am

One of the issues was representation in the government. The articles gave every state equal day, no matter how big the population. The bigger states didn't like that, while the smaller states like NJ were completely fine with it. The compromise was equal representation in the Senate while representation in the House of Representatives was based on population.Another issue was about slavery. The Southern stages wanted slaves to count in the population while the Northern states didn't want them to count. The compromise was 3/5 of slaves counted as population in determining representation to the House of Representatives. I think the compromises were necessary so everyone was happy.

Elijah S.

8/3/2014 08:15:37 am

I agree with Lucy. Having a constitution that allows slavery is better than nothing at all.

Elijah S.

8/3/2014 08:17:55 am

I agree with Claire, if slavery was abolished just then, the South wouldn't have voted.

Sophia

8/3/2014 09:05:07 am

The two largest disagreements between the northern and southern states were on tariffs and slavery. On the issue of tariffs, the northern states were in favor because more colonists would buy American made products if products from other countries were more expensive. The southern states thought that tariffs favored the northern states. Tariffs could also make American products harder to sell in Europe and other countries. The northern states had officially ended slavery, but the southern states still used and depended on the slaves on their farms. Section 8 and Section 9 of Article 1 of the constitution are compromises on these issues. On the issue of slavery, there was another compromise included. This was the three-fifths clause. It meant that when states would decide how many representatives they could send to the House of Representatives, all free people, indentured servants and three-fifths of the slaves would be counted. The compromise were necessary so that they could get the majority of the Framers to vote in favor of the constitution.

Justin

8/3/2014 11:12:18 am

The disagreements between the North and South were slavery and tariffs. The conflict about slavery was that the many Southern farmers were financially dependent on slavery, but the North didn't practice or want slavery. The disagreement with tariffs was that the North thought we needed tariffs for are businesses to prosper. The South thought tariffs would increase the cost of goods they were getting from Europe.

To solve the problem, the Framers gave Congress the power to lay and collect taxes,duties,imposts, and excises, and to regulate commerce with other nations, many states, and Indian Tribes. Also before 1808 migration of slaves shouldn't be prohibited by the Congress.

I think the compromises were successful because it was a win/win situation for the North and South.

Ali

8/3/2014 11:56:16 am

The North and the South did not agree on tariffs and slavery. The South was pro-slavery. The South had a smaller population. Almost their entire economy was based of of agriculture. They relied on slaves to get work done on the farms. They didn't pay the slaves so this made their farms turn a higher profit. They couldn't make as much money with paying the slaves. The North was opposed to slavery. However the North wanted tariffs. Activating tariffs would make products from Britain cost more causing people in a America to buy from the manufacturers in America where no tariffs would be in place to their own country. The South was against tariffs because they feared that Britain would not want to buy their agricultural products.

They tried to solve their arguments. It was compromised that the government has the right to make and collect taxes. While they just said that the slavery issue would be put off for a few years. I don't think it was a great compromise to just put off the slavery, as it would be an issue to solve eventually.

Luke

8/3/2014 12:56:48 pm

The norther and Southern states had two major disagreements at the convention. The north disagreed about the use of slaves, and the southern disagreed about how people where elected into office.

in section 9 article 1of the Constitution it stated that the use of slaves would continue until 1808

I believe the compromise was successful because each side was happy, and it was fair.

Isabelle

8/3/2014 09:22:25 pm

The North and South disagreed about two issues at the convention. They disagreed about tariffs and slavery. The North thought the national government should be able to place tariffs on goods. The South did not want the goods that they bought to be more expensive. Also, the North was against slavery, but some of the states in the South refused to join the union if slavery was not allowed.

Because of these disagreements, the Framers had to make compromises. In Article I section 8 it says that Congress has the power to lay and collect taxes, and in Articles IV, section 2 it has the fugitive slave clause, which means that slaves that escaped to a state in which slavery was not allowed must be returned to their "owners". I think that this was the best compromise that they could make at the time. It is true that many people believed slavery was wrong, and so it would have to be dealt with eventually, but the constitution took a very long time to write as it was and it was necessary t have the cooperation of al of the states. That is why I think that deciding to not end slave trade before 1808 was a good decision to make at the time.

Noah Holliday

8/6/2014 10:47:19 am

The two disagreements between the Northern and Southern states were 1) tariffs and 2) slavery. The Northern states wanted to be able to pass tariff and believe this would help their businesses because they could put taxes on goods/products from Britain and that would make the citizens want to buy their goods instead of those from Britain. The Southern states opposed tariffs. They felt that Britain would then apply tariffs to their goods.

The Southern states wanted to keep slavery as it helped them financially because they depended on the slaves to tend their fields. However, the Northern states had no reason for slaves, so they felt it was morally wrong.

The parts of the Constitution that settled these disagreements are Article I, Section 8 and 9. Section 8 allowed tariffs issued while Section 9 allowed slave trade to continue until 1808 and other rules that pleased the south.

I do believe these compromises were ok, as they were the only way to get the Southern states to agree with the Constitution.

Makayla

8/7/2014 08:18:53 am

The economic differences between the North and South caused a conflict among the Framers at the Philadelphia Convention. One disagreement was the issue of tariffs. A tariff is a tax on goods and products imported from other countries. The Northern states believed that tariffs were necessary in order for their businesses to thrive. The Northern states wanted to give the new government the power to control trade between the states and foreign nations. The Southern states believed that tariffs would increase the cost of goods they bought from Britain. The Northern and Southern states also disagreed on the idea of slavery. the Northern states were opposed to slavery. Many farmers living in the south, however, still financially depended on slavery. They believed that slavery should continue. The delegates from three Southern states refused to be apart of a union of states that denied them the right to own slaves. Eventually, the Framers reached a compromise over the issues of tariffs and slavery. Section 8 Article 1 gave Congress power to collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Exercises. The other compromise was in Section 9 Article 1. It allowed slave trade to continue to 1808. Although I disagree with slavery, I do believe the Framers should have made these compromises. without these compromises the states wouldn't have worked together to become a country.

Sophia

8/7/2014 10:05:37 am

The two largest disagreements between the northern and southern states were on tariffs and slavery. On the issue of tariffs the northern states were in favor, because more colonists would buy American made products if products from other countries were more expensive. The southern states thought that tariffs favored the northern states. Tariffs could also make American products harder to sell in Europe and other countries. The northern states had officially ended slavery, but the southern states still used and depended on the slaves on their farms. Section 8 and Section 9 of Article 1 of the constitution are compromises on these issues. On the issue of slavery, there was another compromise included. This was the three-fifths clause. It meant that when states would decide how many representatives they could send to the House of Representatives, all free people, indentured servants and three-fifths of the slaves would be counted. The compromises were necessary so that they could get the majority of the Framers to vote in favor of the constitution.

Aiden

8/7/2014 10:57:25 pm

The two biggest disagreements between the North and the South at the Philadelphia Convention were the use of slaves (whether they should be counted as population) (also, slave trade regulation) and tariffs. The South relied on slaves/slave trade for their economy. The North had no need for slaves, and most northern states had abolished slavery, and felt every state should be like them. A compromise for the slave issue was the Three-Fifths Compromise. It is in the Constitution, and says that whenever states are deciding representatives for the House, all free people, all indentured servants, but only 3/5 of slaves would be taken into account.

Week 4, Question 1

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